It is absolutely the parents vault. When I hear this "We never knew a thing was wrong with our child!" Sue acknowledges that before Columbine, she would have reacted to news of some horrific act by wondering what that persons parents must have been like to allow someone to turn out like that. ", Eric: (shrugs) "My parents might have made some mistakes that they weren't really aware of. I'm sorry, all right. We've hardly seen him & attempts to engage him have been futile. Age : 36. I'm not a troll anonymous. I remember Oprah had teachers and students from Columbine on her show within a month of the event. The problem, Cullen concludes, was that there is almost nothing that can be done to help psychopaths. While Id argue that violent media doesnt cause people to act violently if theyre not otherwise inclined, it seems Dylan was vulnerable to the violent games and movies he consumed outside the home. She and the father lectured him, took away . Victim's parents reactThe Klebolds comments was criticized late Saturday by some of the victims parents. If only we would have asked the right questions." People that want to pretend that the parents were just innocent distant bystanders who had no responsibility for anything that happened are repulsive. Younger brother to Kevin Harris (21 at the time). Or if they are, it's not because they're running amok in the store. Reviews: 81% of readers found this page helpful, Address: Suite 369 9754 Roberts Pines, West Benitaburgh, NM 69180-7958, Hobby: Worldbuilding, Shopping, Quilting, Cooking, Homebrewing, Leather crafting, Pet. I encourage you to study the footage and reach out to others in the comments. Its hard to tell. It's up to me what I do with it. To develop coping skills. Sue Klebold broke down in tears as she remembered the funeral of her son Dylan. Now everybody expects the schools to fix everything for them. You unterstand. Apparently his meds caused an issue with a military enlistment, but wouldn't a caring parent sit down with their kid and figure out a Plan B? There will always be apologists for the Harris parents who incredibly state that parents have no control over their children. What can I say, the mention of Dave Cullen's book piqued my curiosity. And now she won't show it. And then later on, how was he able to conceal his mental state so successfully? Born: 4-9-1981. The world was shocked and sickened on April 20, 1991, when crazed students Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric Harris, 18, slaughtered 12 students and one teacher at Colorado's Columbine High School. He was easy to raise, a pleasure to be with, a child who had always made us proud (Klebold, 2016, p. 61). I guess it's my generation. He didn't even say hi to Tom or ask how he was. Dylan Bennett Klebold. I remember Oprah had teachers and students from Columbine on her show within a month of the event. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser. I'm sure they still live in Columbine and are active in many community functions, especially the PTA. "In the very . Thank you! [quote]You have to ignore a whole lot of what is wrong with society to limit it to a bogus discussion about how some people have "brains wired differently." People can be fooled. It Always seems like he didn't give a damn about them, in his writings and in the Basement Tapes. we only know so much and there have probably been incidents we dont know about. In them, its obvious to see how his anger and rage turned from being directed toward himself to directed toward others. Klebold's body was . His dad followed him around with a camcorder, capturing every move. No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. I couldn't put the book down, and even though I thought I knew the ending of the story, or at least most of it, I have to admit, the last couple of chapters, specifically the one detailing the Basement Tapes, and the one about what had happened leading up to Harris and Klebold committing suicide were fucking frightening. [quote]He has always been excessively cruel to animals (he even shot and killed his own dog because it barked), obsessed with weapons, "charmingly" manipulative of adults, a pathological liar, disdainful of other people and abusive to them and VERY quick to anger. Firstly, like everyone else he didn't pick up on his mental health nor was Dylan apparently showing it to his 'best friend.'. Or, as Eric himself said, quoting Shakespeare, in the farewell video he left for his parents: x93Good wombs have borne bad sons.x94. Eric Harris was a garden variety psychopath, nothing very interesting about him. He lays bare the callous brutality of mastermind Eric Harris and the quavering, suicidal Dylan Klebold, who went to the prom three days earlier and obsessed about love in his journal. I couldn't do that to my family and I admit that I would never have the guts. Tom seemed in complete denial. No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. A Further Examination: Sue Klebolds case study of her son, Dylan Klebold, Trauma and Suicide within Law Enforcement, Mental Health and Mass Murders: The Connection between Trauma and School Shootings, Mental Health Treatment in Correctional Facilities, Forensic Behavior Analysis: Self Care in the CJ Field, Trauma in Female Juvenile Inmates and Delinquents. Ridiculous. . They always have, and unless we can change it (which might be very "Pandora") they always will. Oprah asked the teachers to describe Harris/Klebold, the teachers talked about how they didn't fit in, wore trenchcoats, seemed troubled and dangerous, and so on. Dylan Klebold's father contacted authorities, saying the boy might be involved and offering to help, Jefferson County District Attorney Dave . I'm not saying that there's no guilt, no responsibility, because no matter how our brains are wired, we're all creatures of free will and able to make moral choices, but to lay everything at the feet of society, or the parents, or the school, is way, way too simple. How often did they fix things up, was he emotionally available for Dylan? I'm just thinking of the argument Sue mentioned in her book where Tom was insisting that Dylan remove his baseball hat before they went for breakfast (during their visit to Arizona State University). How they could live with themselves is beyond me. And although there was never anything we could do to put him away, so to speak, before he hurt someone, my mother would *never* claim in an aftermath that she had no idea of his mental state or his comings and goings or that she didn't know what made him that way. Attacks seem planned in advance, with the shooter expecting to be killed or planning to commit suicide in conjunction with the attack. Theres to me a level of skepticism we have usually of course with the scraps of info we had, but also the slight weirdness/more to it/unreliability when it came down to this particular topic, Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylans best friend. His father Wayne was a U.S. Air Force transport pilot . It is actually a lot of conformist bunk to serve the status quo. It is actually a lot of conformist bunk to serve the status quo. Dylan and Robyn had fun. [quote]I think he made only one phone call to a recruiter. Very few people really care. They acknowledged they missed signs that their son was in trouble. You can play the "if only" game all day long, but ultimately, it's nothing. COLUMBINE HIGH SCHOOL massacre - WikiVidi Documentary. The teachers at Columbine all seemed incredibly disengaged. Sue Klebold, mother of Columbine shooter Dylan Klebold, poses for a portrait on Feb. 23, 2016. He was one of the teens behind the Columbine High School Massacre in 1999. "In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine.". At approximately 11:19 a.m., Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, dressed in trench coats, began shooting fellow students outside Columbine High School, located in a suburb south of Denver. r109 is quick to dismiss r108 as a "troll". R71, having seen Patti Lupone shit all over Gypsy, I can assure you, there's a Hell. Or is your tiny mind only capable of two viewpoints? The testimony people point out of a co-worker stating Dylan didnt get on with his father is unreliable as he couldve been having a teenage moan or joining in one time right up to regular bitterly disparaging remarks and reasons why. His point is that "society" didn't have too much of anything to do with how Harris turned out--he was born that way. I'm glad Oprah isn't going to help this man promote his book. Im horrified, Dawn Anna, whose daughter Lauren Townsend was killed at Columbine, told The Associated Press. (p. 277). "some manipulate, like my parents.". With these many, many factors in mind, I turn to A Mothers Reckoning. One young doctor said, "I don't know if you can teach compassion, but you surely can teach the opposite! If I didn't know that I would have done the same. "However, there is credible, tangible, measurable, and repeatable evidence that there are some people, for whatever reason, have their brains wired differently.". What kind of parent lets their kid have a swastika prominently displayed in their room (as just one of many, many signs that their offspring had problems)? And it wasnx92t because they werenx92t around. And for a best friend, did they spend much time together at all? As much as it sucked I knew deep down that it was just a stage and that it wasn't real. ", Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". The glaring one that Americans seem unable to see is the huge amount of available weapons in the US. Then Oprah asked if they ever reached out to them or spoke to their parents - not one of them had done a thing. Attention was paid. Don't believe me? Eric says if either the clerk or his father had asked just one question, "we would have been fucked.". Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, on April 9, 1981. His father Wayne was an Air force pilot, his mother Kathy was a homemaker and his brother Kevin earned a masters degree and married. Yes, it's really terrible when there is the free-flow of information and ideas, isn't it? Are any of Robert Hare's books of interest, if you know? From many angles, Dylan was the average kid any parent would want. OP, I agree with you. They may show cruelty to animals, or alternatively a high degree of affection or attachment to animals. As I often do, Ill leave the author the last word on why understanding the process her son went through is important: Dylan was vulnerable in many ways unquestionably emotionally immature, depressed, possibly suffering from a more serious mood or personality disorder. They had heard the gunmen may have been part of the Trench Coat Mafia, a loose group of students, including their son, who said athletes at Columbine bullied them. While in class we have made abundantly clear that most people with mental health issues are non-violent, Dylans depression and suicidality fits the school shooter pattern. I don't think it's fair to either demonize or absolve them, but from studies of psychopathy, even the best parenting can't make that be turned off. Growing up in Ohio, she had a mixed religious upbringing with her Christian mother and Jewish father. That doesn't make them monsters. How are parents supposed to know everything that goes on in their children's minds? (p. 311-312) Synthesizing the many factors, its argued that most school shooters have a history of social rejection, along with either psychological problems, an interest in weapons, and/or a fascination with death (p. 314). AAron Ontiveroz/the Denver Post via Getty Images Dave Cullen, in a radio interview that I've been listening to, is very quick to point out that psychopathy doesn't equate automatically with murder. See? 04-20-1999 Died. Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised, Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks in Saturdays editions of The New York Times. In this difficult, jarring talk, Klebold explores the intersection between mental health and violence . Criminal behavior: a psychological approach. They believe what they want to believe. Ken Caryl Middle, where he met Dylan Klebold. additionally, dylan was definitely naturally shy. She also spent a lot of time conferencing with my teachers to know how well I was doing in school and she was interested in my assignments. In my defense, R78, everyone knew I wrote the best hand. I wonder if there was any homosex between those two. She didn't do anything that would be perceived as spying. I've always felt sorry for Dylan, who seemed so lost and depressed. So he called me and offered to go to the school in hopes of negotiating with Dylan. Bedwetting, firesetting and cruelty to animals. The Klebolds attorney, Gary Lozow, told The Denver Post the Klebolds had no plans to grant any other interviews. Tom Klebold said they hope to understand someday why the shooting happened. VOTN needs to get a clue. Sue Klebold decided to speak up now because she wants to tell other parents the signs she missed and what she would do differently. His parents were Wayne Harris and his wife Katherine Ann Poole. According to a report in the Denver Rocky Mountain News, the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office was supplied with evidence a year ago that "Eric . You have to ignore a whole lot of what is wrong with society to limit it to a bogus discussion about how some people have "brains wired differently." When the clerk told him "Hey, your clips are in." Its exactly people like you that caused this massacre to happen in the first place. Thats Something that stands out about Dylan anyway, the Lack of Emotion regarding his parents. What is something of a mystery to me is why things reached the point they did. I just don't know how something that is so basic as how the brain works is something that can be treated with therapy. Looking back on the textbooks suggested traits of school shooters, weve already seen above how Dylan does actually map onto many of them. Dylan Klebold, along with his friend Eric Harris, shot and killed 13 people and injured 23 others in April, 1999 in Columbine High School, before they turned their guns on . Pais was a student at Miami Beach High School who was reportedly obsessed with the school shooting at Columbine, the high school where 13 people were shot and killed 20 years ago. He did it in contradiction to the way he was raised.. As the son of a geophysicist father and a mother who worked with the disabled, his upper-middle-class upbringing and well-meaning family didn't seem like contributing factors to his eventual killing spree. I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again. He had been in a gifted child program, and you'd think they'd have some type of monitoring since kids who are that advanced frequently have problems. He still was the boy his parents joked seemed to be on autopilot (p. 65), but Sue notes that this may have been particularly dangerous in his case. 5 feet 6.5 inches tall, 135-140 pounds. Hers was a love as dark and true, as embracing and self-abnegating, as Cordelia's. On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, seniors at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., placed . Virginia Tech. I am certain that Sue no longer lives there but she still does visit the house as two Columbiners took a Columbine/E &D tour" in Jan .or Feb and saw Sue outside the house as they drove by. We monitored what movies our boys could see, and put them to bed with stories and prayers and hugs (p. 61). But she came to realize the truth was far more troubling. It's always about management. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the gunman, had been bullied for several years prior to the massacre. Parenting is the ultimate denial of responsibility because it is always the OTHER PARENT'S FAULT. Forum Reputation : 52. I can't find any photos of Eric's older brother, Kevin. Some psychopaths are obsessed with money or power, but when you combine psychopathy with sadism, you get an Eric Harris. "Hey, Sci-fi-tologist, fuck off with your anti-psychology bullshit". Several phone callers to the Jewish News have . 6. "How do you teach someone to have emotions or empathy?". If anything, they seemed to hate everyone equally. 'Toxic culture' blamedHe was hopeless. It was obvious that the attack had been in the works for a long time, and the plan carefully thought out. I've linked an article from Nature magazine about it. I knew he was off, different. Yaron Steinbuch. Other than that, we don't have much indication that Tom was anything other than a good father. I think you did an excellent job with this blog post. Most shouldn't have ever been parents in the first place. Sue provides details that help us address some of the other considerations as well. Yet, despite a happy upbringing, Dylan still did what he did. They often have an interest in guns and weapons, with easy access to firearms, and have often repeatedly made clear their violent intentions to others (usually peers). His parents were both born in Colorado but while he was working in the Air Force as a transport pilot, Wayne Harris held 11 . Dylan also writes in his journal that. "Susan said, came when somebody said, "I forgive you for what you've done." Dylan Klebold (Dylan Bennet Klebold) was born on 11 September, 1981 in Lakewood, Colorado, United States, is a 20th century American mass murderers. Unfortunately, we only have her word today as to what went on in the home. I think he suffered horribly before he died, Susan Klebold said. On Dylan's part, I think that in January 1999, he was depressed and preparing to die - distancing himself from those he loved, so that it would be easier for him to carry out the attack. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds . Shocking crime scene photos explode the myths and reveal shocking details! The school shooting took place on April 20, 1999 at . So I'm gone. Kids do know about their frineds. These incidents happen because the majority of people choose to look the other way if a kid seems a little off. Maybe I'm just feeling too knowledgeable having been re-reading Steve Pinker's "How The Mind Works" recently. They crowned a queen, they crowned a king. Eric, on the other hand, was a psychopath, Cullen concludes, and he spends 400 pages convincingly making his case. . Their teenage son, along with his classmate Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, on April 20, 1999. Dang, I'm unemployed and I wanted to watch today's Oprah about Columbine. We are ich bin auslander! Did Harris or Klebold have any siblings? You're far too stupid to ever see that though. The perpetrator often has faced peer or social rejection, endured bullying, has anger about the bullying, and lacks the social or coping skills to deal with these issues. Denver area Jews, meanwhile, have expressed discomfort at the emphasis being paid to Klebold's alleged Jewishness. After I wrote a column a few weeks ago about the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School, I got e-mail from Tom Klebold, the father of Dylan Klebold, one of the . The next deadliest school shooting (based on fatalities) was the Sandy Hook Elementary massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, with 27 fatalities. (talks about his mother being thoughtful, bringing him candy and Slim Jims) "I really am sorry about all this. School officials, law enforcement, and the adult community learned a lot after Columbine and are doing a better job of detecting trouble. These two need to be gutted and hung out for the vultures. (The OP was looking for books on personality mirroring and other techniques sociopaths use). . Psychiatry has long attacked outsiders of all kinds, including gays, while not saying a word about society. Wayne - who owned guns himself - told the clerk he hadn't ordered any clips. I think those that readily (and outrightly) blame the parents are inclined to do so as to perpetuate some aspect of control, otherwise the shear nature of the case becomes too frightening. Describes how eric harris and dylan klebold approach columbine high school, in jefferson county, colorado. Yes, it's the fifth anniversary of when you met your partner and you go out to dinner and somebody's child is relentlessly screaming throughout dinner that's fine. Harris and Klebold met at Ken Caryl Middle School during their seventh grade year. "Mrs. Klebold had her hair done the day after the shooting". If someone read my journals as a teen, youd assume my Mom and I would have killed each other by now, but now we are pretty close. [] Asking why only makes us feel hopeless. What happened isn't their fault. Byron Klebold is Dylan's older brother - photo of him at link. Focus on the mental. He was afraid Dylan might be involved. Eric Harris was quite the hottie, I don't understand why he had to go and kill himself. But they sure jumped at the chance to be on Oprah! - You're all over this shit aren't ya? Answer (1 of 2): His mother has (admirably, if belatedly) committed herself to educating people on how to spot the signs of malignant tendencies in their children in an effort to help separate real danger signs from "normal" teen BS. Really just the gerden variety sociopath stuff? A lot of psychiatry is and has always been about cheap quick labels, rather than an honest analysis of the society in which individuals live. Gotta go. From what we cam tell, the Harris family took a laissez-faire attitude towards Eric. And then later on, how was he able to conceal his mental state so successfully? German-American restaurant owner: "You vill not be a mass murderer!" We didnt realize it until after the end, Tom Klebold said. Planning? For not seeing that, I will never forgive myself.. Did those kids talk about this? Sue received a number of letters from people whod gone to Columbine who were more surprised that a shooting hadnt happened sooner than that one had happened at all. You're a judgmental twat, r14. Dylan takes the camera then and begins filming Eric. As Dylan entered adolescence, he became a bit more complicated. This week, one of them, Sue Klebold mother of shooter Dylan Klebold - breaks the silence with ABC's Diane Sawyer. I kind of admire that. At approximately 11:19 a.m., Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric . Other way around. Some folks do indeed work from very primitive brain impulses. Indeed, R96. This is my (completely layman's) opinion, but I've always figured that we have more or less tamped down the "How" of the brain, but we're still working on the "Why" of the brain. I worked as a dishwasher, then busboy then waiter in a German-American restaurant years ago when I was growing up. They lie. When I was in high school, my mother knew everyone I went, who I associated with, what I read, what I had my room, etc. Ordinary, normal people who genuinely loved their son. She behaves as if it is normal, as if she doesn't even hear it. its hard to take anything a grieving parents says objectively and we can of course have compassionate understanding for that but also realise it may differ from the reality of the situation, which must be painful. . For happy, easy-to-raise, and successful kids like him, it was easy to fly under their parents radar precisely because they were the shiny pennies, hiding the terrible pain they were in from their parents as capably as they did everything else (p. 65). It is also true that environmental stimuli can make the difference between a kid with "problems" and a kid who becomes a "monster." Who is "limiting" the discussion to the brain? Why does anyone think that parents know or care what their children do? It is very difficult to assign causality in cases like this. Harris was a sociopath. YOU SHOULD NOT STOP ME FROM EXPRESSING MY OPINION!!!!! And while his father was the epitome of the military asshole, having to deal with him only served to hone Eric's skills in fooling people. What have I raised? You have no right to disrupt someone else's place of business. But perhaps he/she IS a charter member of the Reb&VoDKa fan club - and you're just going to IGNORE it? Eric David Harris and Dylan Bennet Klebold were a pair of school shooters, bombers, and mass murderers responsible for the April 20, 1999 Columbine High School Massacre in Columbine, Colorado, which killed thirteen people and wounded 21 others before ending with both of their suicides. Most of you posters here are complete idiots and voiceofthenight is the biggest moron of them all. OSHKOSH, Wis. (WBAY) - A special event was held in Oshkosh Tuesday afternoon, where the mother Dylan Klebold, one of the two gunmen responsible for the Columbine High School shootings in Colorado . So no, nothing in the gifted program could have helped this kid. I think he was broken over the loss of his son, and wants to remember the boy Dylan was and not the murder he became? And society does not want to deal with real problems, so it easier to label people, and just forget about the whole thing. I recently watched the documentary Raising Adam Lanza, and, though it wasnt as detailed, there were some interesting overlaps between Adam and Dylan. Now, she spends her time advocating for suicide prevention and mental health services. But Sue and her husband didnt know what the signs they were seeing meant. When I moved out on my own I gained the privacy afforded to adults. Funny how things cycle.". That doesn't mean that it's always successful. Jesus, what a loathsome pair of people. Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, but moved around frequently as a child due to his father's occupation in the United States Air Force, while Klebold was born and raised near Columbine. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris opened fire at the suburban Denver school on April 20, 1999, killing 13 people before taking their own lives. Okay, well, first of all, gifted programs don't monitor shit. It was very easy to read despite being a difficult topic. Can you imagine having one of those monsters as your brother? Under different circumstances it would've been a lot different. ", Dylan: "They gave me my fucking life. It was weird. The mother of Columbine killer Dylan Klebold says she thinks every day about the people her . February 12, 2016 11:56am. I think maybe his outlook grew worse over time. That's why I have so much contempt for the Harris and Klebold families. Empathy; not so much. His parents were Wayne and Katherine. April 20, 2009 6:01 PM. The recruiter cold-called him. She is the author of A Mother's Reckoning, a book about the signs she missed of Dylan's mental state. one of their coworkers at blackjack (again, cannot remember the name; most of this is just top of my head knowledge but it was a girl) said that dylan was not close with his dad and even disliked him (something to that effect), also in the 11k.